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Forum:2009-03-20 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . (I live! Barely!) I'm putting Moxana Points down now on Gil being played by Zola. I think she saw the whole spectacle outside and is doing her dumb blonde bit for him. (This raises questions about what exactly she was up to in Paris with all those sparks, but I digress.) My guess is that she's got him in the castle for the same reason he voluntarily came in, and the same reason Tarvek gave Agatha: use Gil as a hostage to keep the castle from being destroyed. Compare her earlier style of dialogue or in the sequence following this page . She's entirely too together and talks like she knows what she's doing. Also, the helpless damsel thing doesn't really fit with the she's shown herself to be. Thoughts? --mnenyver 05:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC) : I think she was a "Damsel in Distress" in Paris to get Gil's attention, I think she was told to hang with Sparks to learn for her Heterodyne roll—and handing with Sparks would put anyone in distress. Argadi 08:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC) : If Zola was playing Gil, I wouldn't expect all of Zola's Minions to be asleep. I'd expect Zola to have them keep a close watch on any spawn of Wulfenbach. Argadi 12:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC) : She probably received a lot of training from the Knights of Jove for the part. It's like the difference between the naive child of privilege John Walker Lindh was when he entered the Taliban training camps, and the ruthlessly manipulative cold-blooded killer he was when he emerged. : And Gil is playing the part of the American media, eating up her story on the assumption she just got "in over her head" again and really does think she's the Heterodyne, without realizing she's already revealed to Tiktoffen that she knows full well she isn't. --Tatter D 14:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC) ::If Gil has a weakness, it is believing the best in a person when sometimes they are not worthy of such trust. --Donovan Ravenhull 16:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC) :I've already put myself on record elsewhere as believing the opposite. Taking Gil's story pretty much at face value, it seems that Zola was pretty much the same person all along. Ambitious and amoral, if some Spark comes along and says he is going to conquer Europe with an army of giant squid, her reaction is "Oooh! Let me help! And share the spoils by your side!". :Stalin said "Kill one person, and it's a tragedy; kill a million, and it's a statistic". While we've seen Zola commit cold-blooded murder in the scheme with which she is currently involved, Gil's account shows that even when they first met, she was quite happy to commit statistics, if not tragedies. Thus, while others have reacted to Gil's account as providing evidence she was "more sinned against than sinner", I didn't see evidence of that in Gil's account itself. :I also admitted that there's no reason not to assume that her ambition and amorality had been formed, prior to her first encounter with Gil, by the negative aspects of life as a showgirl. From Moloch's story, and the first few pages of the beginning of the comic, we know that there is a lot of misery, poverty, and death in Europe as it is now. But nothing in Gil's account makes me more sympathetic to this character - unlike Violetta, and even Bang, who are also arguably menacing and villainous, I actively despise Zola; but then, right from her first appearance in pink, that seems to be how we were intended to feel about her. --Quadibloc 06:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC) ::You may be right. If I make incorrect guesses, it's because I tend to overcomplicate things. I think, "Well, that's too simple. It has to have another twist to it." At any rate, I hope we'll find out soon! --mnenyver 04:41, 22 March 2009 (UTC) :::I know from experience that I do make the opposite error. Until Tarvek explicitly said Oublenmach and Strinbeck were working for him (or at least his father) I inferred nothing from their reaction to Gil's wielding the lightning, and maintained a stubborn resistance to Zarchne's (now obviously correct) idea that Gil may qualify as the real Storm King. --Quadibloc 16:10, 22 March 2009 (UTC) :::: OUCH! How the HELL could I have missed this? (cue sound of hand smacking forehead HARD) We have only Tarvek´s word on that the Storm King prophecy actually speaks of a descendant of the original Storm King, rather than someone who rules a/the storm (which Gil did when he destroyed the invaders with lightning). Admittedly the former interpretation aids Tarvek, seeing as he is the Storm King´s direct descendant, which probably why he promotes it; remember, when he told Agatha he was the Storm King, she assumed he was totally crazy - because to her, he must he thought he was Andronicus Valois himself. :::: Think about it: if someone says he´s the King of Somewhere, we assume he´s the current King of Somewhere, the descendant of the original King of Somewhere, because we implicitly assume that being the King of Somewhere is hereditary. Agatha didn´t make that connection, because to her, The Storm King is not a hereditary title. Elizabeth II of Britain is Elizabeth II, not Elizabeth the Conqueror because she inherited the throne which was once William the Conqueror´s - the Storm King moniker is probably similar. :::: Well, on the other hand, of course, this could be completely wrong. -Sir Chaos 20:44, 22 March 2009 (UTC) So, in the meantime, I'm imagining how the eventual "introductions" went with Zola's crew while Gil was playing with his new toys. Gil: Captain. Always had a nose for adventure and valuable artifacts that others would overlook, now the charismatic swashbuckling leader of Gil's Gang. Theo: Navigator. Childhood friend of Gil's, knows him better than possibly anyone else. Probably shared a few (carefully edited) stories of his and Gil's early exploits with Zola, to keep in character. Sleipnir: Chief engineer. Not quite as skilled as Gil, but Gil has his hands full with leading the crew, so she has run of the engine room and keeps everything in working order. Probably jumped at the chance to play Gil's lab assistant with the broken devices, until she finally ran out of steam and crashed. Zeetha: Former circus entertainer, now security chief of Gil's Gang. Keeps enemy guards and pirates occupied... one way or another. "Bosun" Higgs: Ex-Wulfenbach airman, left to join Gil on a life of adventure. Generally fills logistical and quartermastering duties, but true to his (new) title, he can do a little bit of everything, and keep a cool head through it all to boot. Krosp: Gil's cat. A good strategic move on the part of whoever did the introducing (probably Zeetha) would be to reveal that he's a lot smarter than he seems, and can walk on his hind legs and even filch treasures Gil can't reach (when he feels like it), but not actually talk. This would explain to Zola why Gil brought his cat into Castle Heterodyne, the coat (which would get terribly dirty if Krosp always went around on all fours), and the fact that he was reared up when Zola first saw him, but then went around pretending to be an ordinary, if overdressed, cat ever since. If Zola was led in the conversation to point out these things herself, it would make her confident that Gil and/or Krosp were unable to put one over on her, without actually revealing the true extent of Krosp's intellect and abilities. Plus, Krosp wouldn't have to risk throwing out his back any more running around on all fours. How Zola would introduce herself and her goon squad would be even more entertaining... --Tatter D 16:23, 23 March 2009 (UTC) : uhmm, theo wasn't in paris with gil if i recall correctly. or did i just misunderstand you there? : Finn MacCool 23:40, 23 March 2009 (UTC) :: You don't really think Zola's crew and Gil's crew just sat around staring at each other while Gil was working on the broken device all night until they were all bored to sleep, do you? Maybe Gil managed to keep them all too busy fetching parts and tools until they passed out, but the fact that Gil didn't notice they had all gone to bed indicates they were pretty much on their own as far as further conversation goes, and the fact they're all sleeping in the same area (instead of huddled into standoffish camps on opposite sides of the hallway) indicates that there was probably enough information exchanged to at least build a rapport between the two, something a bit less tenuous than "Gil/Zola says those other guys are okay." --Tatter D 06:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC) ::: ? is that meant to be a reply to what i wrote? if so, i just questioned the point about theo's exploits with zola, nothing else. ::: Finn MacCool 12:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC) :::: I never said Theo had any exploits with Zola. Is English not your native language? --Tatter D 19:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ::::: nope. but are you sure that no native speaker could misinterpret that "Probably shared a few (carefully edited) stories of his and Gil's early exploits with Zola"-part? ::::: Finn MacCool 21:36, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :::::: Hmm. Maybe it would have been more clear if I had said "Probably shared with Zola a few (carefully edited) stories of his and Gil's early exploits, to keep in character." I suppose it's so rare to have people on this forum who are sufficiently pedantic that they would rather assume the most nonsensical possible interpretation of any given sentence is the intended one, the better to harrangue other posters with impromptu grammar lessons, that I have become a bit careless about sentence structure. :::::: Of course, I would rather simply ignore such people than communicate with them, so it's not any great loss to me. --Tatter D 18:41, 26 March 2009 (UTC) ::::::: ahh, thanks for the clearance ::::::: Finn MacCool 20:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC) ---- Please forgive me, but... :Her name was Zola, :She was a showgirl... Come on, sing along with me! --Donovan Ravenhull 12:30, 20 March 2009 (UTC)